View source for Talk:Maxwell's demon

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{{Tmbox|type=content|text=Editors have questioned whether the "In industry" section gives undue weight to one company. The company is [[demonpore, inc.]], now [[Molecular Reality Corporation]], which also wrote this article. See [[Molecupedia:Conflict of interest]] and the discussions below.}}
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== Undue weight in "In industry" ==
The section on one company runs to about 500 words. "In biology" and "In culture" together come to about 260, and "Experimental demons", which covers every working demon built since 2007, to about 300. The company the section describes also wrote the article. I propose cutting it to two sentences, the name and the reason for it, and moving the rest to [[demonpore, inc.]] per [[Molecupedia:Neutral point of view]]. [[User:PicoampPedant|PicoampPedant]] ([[User talk:PicoampPedant|talk]]) 03:48, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. The demon gave its name to the background processes of every Unix system, and that gets two sentences under "In culture". A company that carried the name from 2018 to 2021 gets a section, an image and a block quotation. [[User:Ionophore|Ionophore]] ([[User talk:Ionophore|talk]]) 03:55, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. The section is the only part of the article in which someone builds the thing. The company's idea was a pore between two sliding membranes that can be widened, narrowed or shut while it runs, and Maxwell's being of 1867 worked its hole "by means of a slide without mass". That is the article's subject, in hardware. [[User:Aperture tube|Aperture tube]] ([[User talk:Aperture tube|talk]]) 04:03, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
**The hardware has not reached the scale of molecules. The sliding pores have been measured, and apertures below 15 nm remain a target. [[User:Ionophore|Ionophore]] ([[User talk:Ionophore|talk]]) 04:07, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' on the physics in the section. It quotes the company's figure of about 6 femtojoules per decision, roughly two million times Landauer's limit. The arithmetic in the note is right: 0.2 V times 3.1 nA times 10 µs is 6.2 fJ. But that is the heat dissipated by the ionic current during the look, and it is spent whether or not anything is decided. Landauer's bound is on erasing the demon's record. The section compares the cost of keeping the light on with the cost of forgetting what was seen. [[User:Debye Length Enjoyer|Debye Length Enjoyer]] ([[User talk:Debye Length Enjoyer|talk]]) 04:15, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
**The section attributes the figure to the company's science writing, shows the multiplication in a note, and quotes the company's next lines, which put the difficulty elsewhere: "The real question is the decision itself." A reader can see what was multiplied by what. [[User:Translocation event|Translocation event]] ([[User talk:Translocation event|talk]]) 04:22, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. For the record, Maxwell's catechism among his letters to Tait: "This reduces the demon to a valve. As such value him." The company's guide calls its [[juxtapore]] "a valve with molecular fingers". [[User:Luer lock|Luer lock]] ([[User talk:Luer lock|talk]]) 04:30, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
:No consensus to cut. The section stays as written, with the conflict of interest declared above, and nothing is to be added to it. A summary of the name and its origin is also in the lead. [[User:DwellTimeDave|DwellTimeDave]] ([[User talk:DwellTimeDave|talk]]) 04:41, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
::I will raise it again when the company builds a demon. [[User:PicoampPedant|PicoampPedant]] ([[User talk:PicoampPedant|talk]]) 04:44, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

== Daemon Pore ==
The section ends with "Daemon Pore", the working name of the [[MR1 Nanopore Reader]] until a commit of October 18, 2026. That is the computing spelling. Should it move to "In culture", beside Project MAC? [[User:Weep moat|Weep moat]] ([[User talk:Weep moat|talk]]) 05:02, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
:It is the company's own name in another spelling. ''Debye Length'' put it that way: "Daemon Pore was the old company name, demonpore, wearing a different spelling."<ref name="p15">{{cite news |title=There Are Two MR1s and That Is Fine |work=Debye Length |author=Ferris Calloway |date=2026-10-23 |url=/press/debye/2026/10/23/two-mr1s}}</ref> It belongs with the company. [[User:Ionophore|Ionophore]] ([[User talk:Ionophore|talk]]) 05:07, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
::The spelling made a round trip. Fernando Corbató: "Our use of the word daemon was inspired by the Maxwell's daemon of physics and thermodynamics." The physicists' demon became the programmers' daemon in 1963 and came back to a pore in 2026. [[User:Debye Length Enjoyer|Debye Length Enjoyer]] ([[User talk:Debye Length Enjoyer|talk]]) 05:12, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
:::Leaving it where it is. [[User:DwellTimeDave|DwellTimeDave]] ([[User talk:DwellTimeDave|talk]]) 05:15, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

== Thomson or Kelvin? ==
The lead and "Naming" credit the word demon to "William Thomson". Most readers know him as Lord Kelvin. Should we use that name? [[User:Translocation event|Translocation event]] ([[User talk:Translocation event|talk]]) 05:20, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
:He was William Thomson when he wrote the 1874 paper and gave the 1879 lecture. He became Baron Kelvin in 1892. Maxwell's catechism agrees: to "Who gave them this name?" it answers "Thomson." [[User:Aperture tube|Aperture tube]] ([[User talk:Aperture tube|talk]]) 05:26, 25 October 2026 (UTC)
::Then Thomson, with "later Lord Kelvin" at first mention if anyone wants it. [[User:Ionophore|Ionophore]] ([[User talk:Ionophore|talk]]) 05:29, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

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